[00:00:00] Speaker A: Are you really connecting with a particular Book Interrupted member and want to hear more of what they have to say? With your free trial to unpublished, you gain access to the Book Interrupted inklings and real life video content of our day to day challenges, thoughts and opinions. Go to www.bookinterrupted.com backslash unpublished to start your free trial today.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Parental guidance is recommended because this episode has mature topics and strong language. Here are some moments you can look forward to during this episode of Book Interrupted.
[00:00:32] Speaker C: It's someone's idea of utopia.
[00:00:35] Speaker D: It is. I like that there's eleven year olds bathing them so they can have a little glimpse of nudity.
[00:00:40] Speaker E: The tears are from like deep weeping of.
[00:00:46] Speaker D: Gluttons.
[00:00:47] Speaker F: You gluttons so excited when there's a knock at my door and it's one of my kids'friends just actually like old school.
[00:00:53] Speaker G: First they came for the books, then they came for the teachers, then they came for the people.
[00:00:58] Speaker D: No one said anything about reading on this danning book committee.
[00:01:04] Speaker G: My body information is the goal.
Travel something new without me run.
[00:01:16] Speaker D: Mind, body and soul information is without trying to learn something, without being disrupted.
[00:01:27] Speaker G: Mind, body and soul inspiration is with us and we're going to talk it out on Book Interrupted.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Welcome to Book Interrupted, a book club for busy people to connect and one that celebrates life's interruptions.
During this band book cycle, we're reading The Giver by Lois Lowry. If you'd like to join along, this book cycle is from August 1 to October 1.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: The Giver is a 1993 American Young adult dystopian novel written by Lois Lowry, set in a society which at first appears to be utopian but is revealed to be dystopian as the story progresses. The Giver won the 1994 Newberry Medal and has sold more than 12 million copies worldwide. A 2012 survey by School Library Journal designated it as the fourth best children's novel of all time. It has been the subject of a large body of scholarly analysis, with academics considering themes of memory, religion, color and eugenics. In the novel, the society has taken away pain and strife by converting to sameness, a plan that has also eradicated emotional depth from their lives. The protagonist of the story is Jonas, and when he turns twelve, he is singled out to receive special training from The Giver. The Giver alone holds memories of the true pain and pleasure of life. Jonas struggles with concepts of the new emotions and things introduced to him, and whether they are inherently good, evil, or in between, and whether it is possible to have one without the other. In Australia, Canada and the United States, the Giver is required on many core curriculum reading lists in middle school, but it is also frequently challenged, banned for violence, sexual references, infanticide, euthanasia, and suicide. The Giver has met with enough opposition to put it on the American Library Association's most Frequently Challenged and Banned Books list for the years 1990 to 2009.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: All right, so it's personal journal time.
[00:03:32] Speaker G: Let's see what the members of Book Interrupted thought outside the group.
[00:03:35] Speaker C: This is my first personal journal for the book, the Giver by Lois Lowry. So this is a fiction book and it's often part know school curriculum. It's a Dystopian future where at first you think, oh, this does seem a little bit like utopia. I guess dystopian futures usually fall into two categories. Either you know it's Dystopia right away or at first you think it might be utopia and in the end you just realize it's somebody's idea of utopia that really just wants to control things to be a certain way and to eliminate anything that might bring discomfort. And I think that's kind of what's happening here, actually. I guess I know it because I've read the book. I hadn't planned on reading the whole thing before making this personal journal, but it just kind of happened that way. I guess that's the nice thing about this book is that it's not that long. It's a quick and easy read. I can see why it was banned, but it is an interesting commentary on control and the idea that, yes, if you get rid of all the people that in authority might find disruptive, then you do have some idea, some sense of peace. But it also raises the question if you take away suffering, is what's left really happiness? Can you feel all the great feelings that exist in life? If you get rid of all what we consider the bad feelings, any kind of anger and sadness and frustration and suffering, can you really appreciate what the good things are? And would you be willing to give elation up in order to not feel suffering? So somebody's idea of utopia might be where everything is very predictable and nothing really changes. I guess that's also the idea of dystopia to many people.
[00:05:26] Speaker D: Maybe that's not the point of the.
[00:05:28] Speaker C: Book, but that's why these books are very compelling to people, is that predictability is nice in life sometimes because change is uncomfortable. Surprises can be uncomfortable, but are you really living? If you get rid of all of the randomness out of life, you might be technically alive, but would you be living your life? Ask a question. I think like any Dystopian novel will spark some interesting conversations and I look forward to hearing what the rest of the group thinks about the rest of the book. I don't want to put any spoilers in because I finished the book, so I'm going to end it right there.
[00:06:03] Speaker G: Hello.
[00:06:04] Speaker E: Hello. It has been a while since I have done a personal journal entry. My gosh, I didn't realize it was going to slip out of practice so quickly and easily. My goodness gracious. So here I am, back again for the giver on season three of Book Interrupted. I was so proud of myself being like, oh, I'm going to get this in on a day where I have to do my hair and makeup and put a little effort into what I wear because I split my time between working from home and going into the office. So I saved this precious recording for Office Day only to realize I've forgotten all my equipment at home.
I was like, oh, man, this is classic era. So I'm going to try to hold this frame still as much as I can for the viewing audience. I don't have my trusted tripod, just getting in a good arm workout instead. Anyways, jumping right into the giver. I am embarrassed to report I haven't even started the book. Well, no, I do have the book and I have read the front and back cover, folks. Oh, yes. But instead, what have I done with my time? I have watched the movie. So I mentioned this in the group intro. I can't recall a time that I have ever read the book first and then watched the movie. I always do it in the reverse order and I like the movie. It was great. The main character, Jonah He, is played by, if anyone has checked out on Netflix, the show Titans. He plays the character Robin there and so he showed up for the giver along with the incredible Glenn Close and Katie Holmes. I liked it a lot but didn't realize why did I not realize this? Every movie, every movie does this. That the director has taken some liberties and deviated from the text is what I found out a couple of days ago when we had the group intro and I was like, what? The main character isn't like a 16, 1718 year old. I was like, that's weird. How does the love story play out?
I think, though I don't think that there is going to be a love story in the written version. So there you go. I highly recommend the movie. It still conveys a really valuable lesson. If anyone enjoys a good cry over a movie, I would recommend this one because it's one of those cries that you're not left feeling like empty or too down in the dumps. It's one of those beauty cries when things are just so precious and beautiful. Does this ever happen to you? It does happen to me, but I am a crier, so it doesn't take much. So, yeah, I would definitely recommend it. Not just for the cathartic cleanse at the end, but because the message is important. I have heard, though, that not all of the people in my tribe enjoy this movie. I was devastated and I need to have words with them. Other than that, the only other thing that I would really, really like to share and it is because I am a curious cat and I like learning about things, is I'm coming up against one of my beliefs and I'm finding it challenging to see another perspective. So what am I talking about. I would love for any of our audience members, parents, guardians or caregivers that do do a lot of censoring. I would love to hear some feedback. So my parenting style is I am a very permissive parent. This isn't a good thing or a bad thing. It just is a thing. So not a lot of assertive moments coming out of this lady. When it comes to parenting, I am a curious person. I really, really promote that and emphasize that with my own children. I also have gone ahead and made some decisions on their behalf. Growing up, I was always very, very rebellious and I didn't always have the best relationship with my parents. And if they would tell me not to do something, you better believe the moment they said not to do something, I was going to do it. I have taken, like I said, much more of a permissive style with my own parenting because I just kind of thought, well, genetically my kiddos have come from me, and if they have any amount of rebelliousness in them, me saying no is just going to encourage them to run into that direction. But I do think that it's important that we buffer our youth and try to be mindful of where they are in terms of emotional maturity, mental development, physical development. They aren't ready for an adult world. So I tend to if I allow my children to do something, I invite and encourage talking about it afterwards because not everything they are going to understand. When it comes to banned books, many parents and caregivers and guardians step in and advocate on behalf of youth, saying, you know what, I just don't think you're ready for this. Or you know what? You might not take this message as intended. Or you know what, let's visit this a bit down the line. And I really do respect that. I respect the high discernment, the care and love and protection and nurturing that you're wanting to provide for the youth. I just struggle to understand it because it's not a part of me and I think that there could be something to be learned. Perhaps I should be integrating a bit more censoring. So on the theme of banned books, and having read all the reasons why the giver has been banned in a number of states, I would love to solicit some feedback and find out. For parents who take a similar approach, what was the driving motivation, why did you choose that censoring a book is the best approach and why didn't you want to explore other avenues? I hope that this doesn't come across as too overly offensive. I am certainly not casting any judgment. In fact, I would probably say I'm judging myself a lot more harshly for being such a permissive parent. So yeah, I would love to hear from you guys because I don't know that necessarily the way that I'm doing it is the best way with my kiddos. So thank you so much in advance for everyone that wants to share some rationale and reasoning behind their censoring decisions. Take care.
[00:12:57] Speaker G: Okay, so this is my personal journal for The Giver. I am really enjoying it. I'm about halfway done it already. It's a super fast read. And they slowly reveal the dystopia world that they live in, but they make it really interesting. And it's done in the perspective of a twelve year old boy, 1112 year old boy. It's interesting because at first you think, oh, it seems nice. The world, they don't seem like they have any stress. And then they slowly reveal little things. The reason everyone follows the rules is because four or three year olds get like hit if they use the wrong language. And later on they revealed that elderly people also get hit, that no one can not follow the rules. And I'm at the part where you meet the Giver. So I've already met the giver. I understand what he's receiving, that kind of thing. And it has spoiler, has revealed to me that they don't see color, which I already kind of knew because when I was looking for images for this book cycle, I came across pictures of a play of The Giver, and everything was in gray except for the little boy. So then you start thinking about a world of sameness. That's what the giver calls it. Sameness. Like there's no hills and there's no weather and there's no sunshine, and everyone gets one boy and one girl, and everything's very standardized. So I think that's kind of interesting and terrifying at the same time.
Often these dystopian novels have the Handsmaid's tale. I'm also reading Fahrenheit 451. And now this book, The Giver, they don't have books. One of the things in these dystopian worlds is no books. That a world without books implies a world without freedom. And I guess you see that also in history, that they got rid of literature, that form of art. Well, art altogether goes first, doesn't it, when you're trying to control a population and standardize them. So anyway, this book, I think, is going to be really interesting. I'm looking forward to discussing it with the other members of the group and see what they have to say about it. I'm sure I'm going to be done it so quickly. Definitely don't need the amount of time to read it because it's so fast and it's a short book. It was written for children or young adults. It's not an adult book. That might be another reason why it's super, super fast. All right, bye for now.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: I am redoing my PJ one for The Giver by let's see if I can remember. I'm going to guess it is Lois Lowry. I have the book right behind me, so let's have a look. Oh, yeah, memory problems.
[00:15:33] Speaker C: Who says? Lois Lowry. Bam.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: I really didn't know that. I just pulled that right out of the subconscious. I am impressed. Anyway, so I did a personal journal for this already and I read the first line of the book, which I might do again. But then I got really silly. It was almost December and Jonas was beginning to be frightened. No wrong word. Jonas thought frightened meant that deep, sickening feeling of something terrible about to happen. It goes on for a paragraph about, I guess, what he thinks frightened mean. But I said I was only going to read the first sentence and I already read two. So I'm not being very honest right now, am I? So I decided I was going to then fill in the story, like with a guess of what this story was going to be about. And then I made up some stupid story which I don't think is funny or really that creative. So I'm redoing my personal journal. But I am going to say what I think the giver is about. But I already kind of know what the giver is about, but not really. So this is probably an exercise in the same thing I was trying to do before but more authentic, from what I understand.
I think that people's feelings have been removed. I guess I really don't know what I'm talking about. But I think it's something to do with in the interest of saving anyone from feeling any pain, they've somehow figured out how to dull or erase all emotions. But there, I guess, is a person who keeps them somehow. And then I think that that person is passing them on to Jonas. And I think that's what the story is about is him learning about feelings. And I think the moral of the story is going to be that you can't have the good without the bad. Like there's no joy without despair, I guess. Is that the opposite of joy? I don't know. So that's probably what this book is about. That's a fairly standard kind of message. That's a good one. I can get behind it. I hope it's delivered in a story that I enjoy. That's all I can say. Once again, I remembered the name of that author and I never do. That so good for me. One more thing. I want to predict if I'm going to like it or not because I did that with The Handmaid's Tale and I was wrong. I thought I was going to like that book and I didn't. I was even enjoying it while I was reading it until I realized that it was a big, long, drawn out trick. Anyway, enough about that book. We are onto this book. I don't think I'm going to like it. That's my risky prediction right now. I obviously hope that I'm wrong. And this book well, The Handmaid's Tale won a bunch of things, too. Won. What does this say for the most distinguished contribution to American literature for children? Well, that's pretty impressive. And the new York Times says that it's a powerful and provocative novel. So we'll see if those are the kind of things I like in my beaks, I mean, in my books. So there you have it, folks. Prediction not sure I'm gonna like this one. Stay tuned and find out if I do.
[00:18:33] Speaker H: This is Ashley. I read this book back in middle school and my middle school teacher actually read it to all of us. And I remember struggling with the concept of how dystopian this world was and I really didn't understand it. So I had a hard time, I don't know, maybe relating to the book back then. I really didn't like it. I didn't remember too much about it before I started because it was so long ago, but I wasn't that excited to start this one, just to be honest. And I picked up the book from the library. I'm reading it pretty quickly and it feels like a quick read. It's a shorter book, which I appreciate, and I think that's good for schools or even other book clubs. I think it's a really great length of a book, but I don't know how much conversation will come out of it. And maybe once we record the podcast, that'll totally be something that I don't have to worry about. But for me it's a good start. I do like the pacing of it, but I'm just going into it with already a negative bias, so I feel like it's going to be a little hard for me to get super into it. But I am waiting for the audiobook on my library app to be available and I'm hoping to finish it as an audiobook. So to start with, not my favorite, but I'm reading it pretty quickly, so I'll take that and I hope the rest of the group is enjoying it as well.
[00:20:04] Speaker F: Hello, book interrupted fans. I'm back.
It's Virginia. I joined Book Interrupted for Midnight Library, the cycle of Midnight Library, and I am thrilled to be back to be a part of the band book series that's going on. I think it is a fantastic and really interesting concept that Book Interrupted has put together for this year, so I was very excited to be a part of it. So the book that I chosen to be a part of is called The Giver, and I chose it because I wanted to pick a book that I hadn't read or seen a movie. I wanted something brand new to read and to dig into a little bit. And so I picked The Giver, to be totally honest, because of the timing of this recording. So for the timing worked well in my life with work and the family. So I picked The Giver and I was very intrigued by reading a little review online about it, how it's about life in a community where it seems to be idyllic. And there's one outlier, Jonas, who seems to push against some of the rules and what's happening in the community. And so I thought that would be really interesting and something that would create a lot of great conversation. So I am looking forward to once again being a part of all these wonderful women and sharing all of this discussion with all of you that are tuning in for this. So stay tuned.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: This interruption is brought to you by Christine Scarbeck's debut novel, confronting power and chaos, the uncharted kaleidoscope of my life. From her daughter's devastating mental illness to a tumultuous Irish interlude to the obtruse countries she tries to love, christine needs her unconventional and canny predecessors moxie to battle the challenges she must face. Shaking life until its teeth rattle, she relishes every lesson she's learned and hopes you do, too. Available at bookstores near you. Find the link on www.bookinterrupted.com shop.
[00:22:18] Speaker E: This interruption is brought to you by my poor time management and organizational skills. Oh, man. Sometimes I get so frustrated with myself. I seem to operate solely on present time or future time. Future time is really vague and open ended and undefined. I seem to be under the impression that I can accomplish most things in just five minutes.
This leads to so many last minute like brought on completely just by myself. Totally unavoidable. I mean, totally avoidable. I wish it was unavoidable. Well, it is unavoidable. I just seem to bring it back in a lot. So I'm scrambling to try and to get ready for a group recording, which will be lots of fun discussing the book, The Giver. However, I cannot find well, I just found my microphone, which is lovely, and I can't find all the other little tech bits and I've just come to realize that I think I left half of them at the office and the other half are here at home. But I have just done a giant purge clean of the house and don't quite recall where I left all the little pieces. So this will be fun. I am scrambling to find all the pieces and have barely any time because I didn't plan this out well. But, you know, it will all come together or not.
There's things I can choose to get stressed out about and things that I can just choose to laugh off. So there's my interruption, choosing to laugh through it all. Book Interrupted.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Let's listen in to this episode's group discussion.
[00:24:08] Speaker E: All right, here we are back again with Book Interrupted, looking at some more banned books and we are diving into The Giver by Lois Lowry.
[00:24:20] Speaker D: I'm whispering so that the public can't hear, but Kara can.
[00:24:24] Speaker G: Good job, Kara. Thank you.
[00:24:28] Speaker E: There is no quota with me when it comes to positive praise, so thank you, my friend.
[00:24:40] Speaker C: I didn't realize this book was going to be such a quick read. I like, oh, I'm going to get started this book so that I can get halfway through before we meet and then I just read the whole thing.
[00:24:49] Speaker D: How many chapters is it? I'd like to gauge if I'm actually.
[00:24:51] Speaker E: Happy and how many pages.
[00:24:53] Speaker C: Well, this copy I have here is 225 pages, but they're spaced.
[00:25:01] Speaker E: Oh, yeah.
[00:25:02] Speaker F: It's not 23 chapters.
[00:25:04] Speaker D: 23?
[00:25:05] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:25:05] Speaker D: Good Lord. I'm only on chapter four. Well, I'm on chapter not long. We're done chapter four. I was reading it with Fred.
[00:25:12] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:25:13] Speaker D: So we got to coordinate our schedules.
[00:25:15] Speaker E: And he's a busy, busy guy.
[00:25:19] Speaker C: That's nice. Is he enjoying it?
[00:25:22] Speaker D: No, I'm forcing him, but he's enjoying it once he's forced. Right. Once I get him to lie down and listen, then when we get to the end of a chapter, he's like, can we read another chapter?
[00:25:34] Speaker C: Oh, nice.
[00:25:36] Speaker E: So good.
[00:25:37] Speaker D: And I don't know if this is true. When people are released, we're thinking they're killed, or at least maybe they don't. Yeah, we don't know yet.
[00:25:46] Speaker E: This is the story I'm also telling.
[00:25:53] Speaker G: I don't know either because I'm only halfway through and virginia, where are you? Did you finish the whole no, no, not quite.
[00:25:59] Speaker F: I'm pretty close, though.
[00:26:00] Speaker G: Like, three quarters. Had anyone read this before?
[00:26:03] Speaker F: Like I know.
[00:26:03] Speaker G: Obviously.
[00:26:04] Speaker F: Hunger Games. I haven't read quite a few. No, I'd never heard of it either.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: I think it's fairly famous.
[00:26:12] Speaker D: Yeah, totally. Thought that at least one of us would have I think it's an assignment in school.
[00:26:17] Speaker E: Yeah, no, I've never I had never heard of it. I didn't even hear of the movie. And it's got, like, Katie Holmes. Who else does it have? Glenn Close. And I was like, how did I not hear of this movie? So I watched the movie and classic kara style. I watched the movie before reading the book.
[00:26:37] Speaker G: No, we just had this discussion on The Hunger Game. In some cases, it might be better.
[00:26:42] Speaker C: To watch the movie before the book because people are always like, the book's better. So why wouldn't you watch the movie and enjoy it?
[00:26:48] Speaker E: This is what I read the book and enjoy it because every person says the book is ruined once they go and watch the movie because they've already constructed this idea based on the book. And everyone I haven't met a single person yet who is like, yes, I prefer the movie, so I just do it in reverse.
[00:27:09] Speaker D: I think Sarah prefers under the Tuscan Sun movie better than the book.
[00:27:13] Speaker C: And Shakala?
[00:27:15] Speaker E: Isn't Shakula the best movie?
[00:27:18] Speaker D: Not the best book, apparently.
[00:27:19] Speaker G: And Julie and Julia. That, too.
[00:27:22] Speaker E: Really?
[00:27:23] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:27:23] Speaker D: I don't know that one.
[00:27:24] Speaker F: That's a Julia Child one, right?
[00:27:26] Speaker G: It is, yeah. The movie's great, but the movie took a memoir from Julia Child and the Julia and Julia book and blended them together. So you had more information about Julia Child than the woman who wrote that blog that was going through her cookbook. So it wasn't well, it's, like, based on two books. It's actually based on two books, but you wouldn't know, because it's the same name. Right. But it's actually based on two books. Movie.
[00:27:56] Speaker D: I wouldn't say that movies ruin the book for me. I just say that movies don't live up to yeah, the book is still good.
[00:28:05] Speaker E: Yeah, that's a better way to put it.
[00:28:07] Speaker C: But then books can ruin the movie for you because you have this idea.
[00:28:11] Speaker D: It's fair.
Their character wouldn't do chicken and egg. What is ruining what, for example?
[00:28:17] Speaker G: Yeah, totally. Chicken or egg.
[00:28:19] Speaker E: In the movie version, the main character is like a teenager.
Yeah. In the giver.
[00:28:27] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:28:27] Speaker E: But in the book, apparently he's like an eleven year old boy. Or twelve.
[00:28:33] Speaker G: He's twelve. Yeah, twelve.
[00:28:35] Speaker F: Turning twelve.
[00:28:36] Speaker D: Ceremony of twelve.
Now, is it a teenage boy playing a twelve year old, or is it like known in the movie that this is a 16 year old character?
[00:28:47] Speaker E: Well, actually, I don't recall that they ever explicitly say the age of the youth that are going through the initiation to be assigned roles or whatever, but they all clearly look between 16 and.
[00:29:04] Speaker D: 18, which makes more sense to me because it's technically your job, which aligns with our society.
[00:29:10] Speaker E: Right.
[00:29:10] Speaker D: Finish high school and you go and become an adult.
[00:29:13] Speaker E: Work on that. Vocation.
[00:29:15] Speaker G: It could mean that they get all.
[00:29:16] Speaker C: The basic education, like in elementary school, and then go to high school, but they start specializing, too. That could be the story.
[00:29:24] Speaker E: Yes. When they go to these roles in the movie. That would make sense, Meredith, because they aren't fully activated as workers. It's a whole mentor apprenticeship training ground. But in their specialized field yeah.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: They're still going to school during the day and training in the afternoon.
[00:29:40] Speaker D: I just want to share that I'm afraid that I'm going to get spoiled.
[00:29:44] Speaker G: Not I think you are.
[00:29:45] Speaker D: I don't want you to spoiler me. Don't spoil me.
[00:29:48] Speaker E: Oh, okay.
[00:29:49] Speaker C: I'm going to try to not talk about the last part.
[00:29:52] Speaker G: She's only chapter four.
[00:29:53] Speaker D: I can't know anything after that old folks home conversation. That's it.
[00:29:59] Speaker G: No. You don't even know what the inside is.
[00:30:01] Speaker E: No, you don't.
[00:30:02] Speaker D: I don't know nothing.
[00:30:04] Speaker E: Guys, I got to be silent for this.
[00:30:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:09] Speaker G: I think it's okay if we talk about the first step, but you'll still.
[00:30:11] Speaker C: Want to get to the end.
[00:30:12] Speaker D: This is the thing.
[00:30:13] Speaker C: Don't worry.
[00:30:15] Speaker D: Moment in time where it's maybe about the journey. Maybe it's the journey and the destination on my first read through. So I'm very scared that part of that's going to get somehow ruined.
[00:30:27] Speaker E: Got it.
[00:30:27] Speaker C: I won't tell you the destination.
[00:30:29] Speaker D: What did I say? The journey is it what?
[00:30:31] Speaker E: Destination?
[00:30:31] Speaker G: Destination.
[00:30:33] Speaker E: I'd say it is about both, at least from the movie perspective. Those were the hooks. It was simultaneously the journey. I want to see the decision making processes.
[00:30:45] Speaker C: What is this going on?
[00:30:47] Speaker E: Yeah. And very invested in the end result.
[00:30:52] Speaker C: Because it slowly reveals what the community is like. Right.
[00:30:56] Speaker G: Because, you know.
[00:30:57] Speaker E: That there's something yes, that's it. It's like a slow peeling back.
[00:31:02] Speaker C: You know there's something up with this community, right?
[00:31:05] Speaker G: Yeah. Because they're not having airplanes go over them. Right? You already have that. Kim why is there an airplane over us? Like, that's danger. Everyone's scared. That's not normal. Everything is controlled.
[00:31:17] Speaker E: It's all about equilibrium, balance, and there's.
[00:31:22] Speaker G: Rules, and that's not one of the rules. Someone broke a rule, which is terrifying, and then it's like, oh, someone just made a mistake and now they're being released.
[00:31:29] Speaker D: Totally. And it's weird passive aggressive. We don't take extra food and don't eat it.
[00:31:35] Speaker E: Jonas but they don't say, that's exactly what it is. And you're just like, my spidey sense is acting up, but I can't quite pin what's going on.
[00:31:46] Speaker G: I'll be back.
[00:31:47] Speaker C: I have to take this dog outside.
[00:31:48] Speaker D: It's a whole thing taking I'll take the moment as well, Meredith, because I have to let mine in.
[00:31:53] Speaker E: And there will be consequences.
[00:32:00] Speaker G: Now that Kim's not here.
[00:32:02] Speaker D: Oh, my God.
[00:32:03] Speaker G: Kara, how far are you?
[00:32:05] Speaker E: Oh, I watched the whole movie in one sitting and had the best ugly cry at the end. You know, the ones that are so cathartic, but they're not heavy in sadness. The tears are from, like, deep weeping of beautifulness I haven't finished it yet.
Really? You know when you just need one of those cries that you just everything out of you. But it was so nice because I wasn't left with a hangover of I'm so sad. It was like a hangover of yeah, life is pretty spectacular.
[00:32:38] Speaker G: Okay. Kim can hear that part. That's okay. I don't know that ending either, so that's okay.
[00:32:43] Speaker D: Is that from the cry?
[00:32:44] Speaker G: Yeah. She said she cried at the end of the movie, so I'll get ready for that.
[00:32:48] Speaker F: It's funny because Leah saw the movie and she said it wasn't very good. Oh, really?
[00:32:52] Speaker E: I thought I remembered her saying that. I'm going to have to ask her why. Because she's high discerning. Like, she'll pick up on details that would otherwise go by. And don't interrupt my investment in a storyline because I'm not noticing all the nuance particulars that might not be in alignment with the overall theme or message.
[00:33:15] Speaker F: Gotcha. Gotcha.
[00:33:16] Speaker G: You know, that reminds me of Kara. When The Matrix first came out, I was obsessed with it. And I had the movie and we'd watch it all the time. It was the third time we watched it together. I had watched it, obviously more, but it was the third time Kara watched it with me.
[00:33:30] Speaker D: Obviously. I was the one that watched it the most.
[00:33:33] Speaker G: I watched it a million times. I loved it. And the third time we watched it together, kara looks over at me and she's like, okay, I don't get it. I don't understand what's happening. I was like, what do you mean? What don't you get? She's like, I don't get any of like, I don't know what's happening? I was like, you understand the Matrix, the computer program? And she was like, what? No. And I had to go through and the movie because it's all those little details, super attention.
[00:33:58] Speaker E: And I didn't realize it was an actual computer program. I wanted to start to understand how did this world come to be? I needed to get down to the initial moment. And you're like, no, it's a computer program. It's not the entire world.
[00:34:14] Speaker G: She's like, Why are they going from one world to the next? How do they get to this world? And I was like, It's the computer program. She's like, oh, no, I didn't get that.
[00:34:23] Speaker D: I didn't know that till right now.
[00:34:24] Speaker E: I just thought it was the universe.
[00:34:26] Speaker D: Same, same.
[00:34:27] Speaker E: And you can perceive in different ways.
[00:34:30] Speaker D: Totally.
[00:34:31] Speaker G: It's the computer program you're plugging your brain into.
[00:34:34] Speaker D: Still stupid.
[00:34:37] Speaker F: I kind of wondered I feel like where I'm at with the giver. I keep questioning if that's what's going to be happening here. Have you guys got to the part where things are kind of shape shifting a little bit with Jonah the Apple sometimes, but something's with the giver. I'm like I'm wondering yeah, or like.
[00:34:57] Speaker G: Glitch in the.
[00:35:01] Speaker D: So what I'm wondering, too, is it hasn't said anything about it until this apple moment. And then it's like, wait a minute. Is this world black and white?
[00:35:11] Speaker F: Or can they not perceive color?
[00:35:13] Speaker D: That's what saying. Like, whatever's happening with Jonas is obviously like, look at you're special. You can see this apple being what it really is or whatever.
[00:35:21] Speaker F: He's the piano.
[00:35:22] Speaker D: Is their whole world black and white? Then my book is illustrated. Is your guys really? Yeah, look at I'll show you. So here's the big hint.
[00:35:30] Speaker E: I didn't even know that there was an illustrated.
[00:35:32] Speaker D: I actually have a picture informing my suspicions. I wasn't sure if it was just the artist's interpretation, though. And then I was like, Wait a minute. But I also think when we were making our marketing for this that there was some discussion about the lack of color. So I might have already had a spoiler alert here. See, there's a picture of them with the apple.
[00:35:51] Speaker G: Oh, with the apple.
[00:35:52] Speaker E: Then the illustrations are helping to support the reader's gradual understanding, author view of it.
[00:36:00] Speaker D: And like, look here's the bikes. Nobody can ride your bike or whatever. And then everybody to put their bikes down or whatever. But it's black and white. You don't think about that until the glitchy apple shows up. And you're like, Wait a minute.
[00:36:10] Speaker E: And then you go back and look at all the previous pictures. You're like, no, black and white.
[00:36:14] Speaker D: Black and white.
[00:36:14] Speaker E: Black and white.
[00:36:15] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Speaker C: Do you look at the pictures later on, or are you saving it?
[00:36:18] Speaker D: No. Yeah, I would never.
[00:36:19] Speaker G: Oh, really? Never?
[00:36:20] Speaker C: I totally would.
[00:36:21] Speaker E: Oh, I would so.
[00:36:23] Speaker G: Oh, I would have done it immediately.
[00:36:24] Speaker D: With all the people who have finished reading it. It's like, don't show me the pictures that are coming. My favorite part of reading biographies or memoirs is that giant chunk in the middle. That is all of their pictures. I never look at that until I get there.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: I would look at that before I buy the book.
[00:36:41] Speaker E: I start with that. Totally.
[00:36:43] Speaker G: Me too.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: I look at that first.
[00:36:45] Speaker F: I can't help myself.
[00:36:46] Speaker G: The first thing first thing I do never gluttons.
[00:36:50] Speaker D: You gluttons. You low self discipline.
[00:36:52] Speaker G: Oh, no.
[00:36:53] Speaker E: It primes me to get into the book.
[00:36:57] Speaker D: It drives me through. I'm moving toward that section and then it's all down section.
[00:37:02] Speaker G: I would never read the end of the book first. My mom always does that.
[00:37:05] Speaker E: What?
[00:37:06] Speaker G: She reads the first, I don't know, 50 pages and then goes to the back, reads it, and then continues reading. She does it all the time. And I'm like, sacrilege it's against the rules. But for a biography or a memoir, if they have that in the middle, that's the first place I go, oh, yeah, I just want to see it. And then I read it to get to those pictures.
[00:37:24] Speaker E: Isn't that why it's there?
[00:37:26] Speaker G: Wow, you have a lot of discipline. I would have already gone through. And I'm like, oh, I think they might be in black and white.
Now I have the whole story.
[00:37:34] Speaker C: I don't have to read it at all.
[00:37:35] Speaker D: Has some version of a programming, right? Like, I have to earn it, you know?
[00:37:39] Speaker F: There's a couple kids that look different. They've got like, the green eyes.
I wonder if they're going to perceive things differently. Or the color.
[00:37:47] Speaker G: Right? Yeah. There's only a few, right? That baby.
Yeah, because it's Jonas and Jonas.
[00:37:54] Speaker F: Yeah. So what if they all have that capability?
[00:37:57] Speaker D: It's interesting, too. Like, how did they get through? Why weren't they released?
If everyone's brown eyed or whatever the standard is?
[00:38:07] Speaker G: What do you think about all of.
[00:38:08] Speaker C: The elderly people just living together in a different place? It's like you're elderly and now you go over there.
[00:38:14] Speaker D: I like, that there's eleven year olds bathing them so they can have a little glimpse of nudity. That's not the nudity you want to see.
[00:38:21] Speaker E: Friends, the movie does not include this detail.
[00:38:26] Speaker G: Oh, no, they don't. Yeah, it's a big part. The old age home.
[00:38:30] Speaker E: Oh, my gosh. The elderly are bathed by eleven year olds.
[00:38:35] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:36] Speaker G: Because the eleven year olds are doing their volunteer work.
[00:38:38] Speaker C: They get to do volunteer work at different things to see where you're going to be placed, maybe, or whatever, to see what you like, you're giving back. Part of your education is to volunteer. And so one of the things is you volunteer in the house of the old. Is that what they call it?
[00:38:52] Speaker G: Yeah, the house of the old.
[00:38:54] Speaker C: I was like, Did I just make that up?
[00:38:56] Speaker G: No, this one, they're taking care of.
[00:38:59] Speaker C: Them, doing various things, and one of them is bathing them because somebody's got to bathe them.
[00:39:03] Speaker E: Oh, no. If things are handled in a very different manner in the book but it's.
[00:39:08] Speaker F: Not done in a weird, perversy way.
[00:39:11] Speaker D: Not at all perverted.
[00:39:13] Speaker C: If you put something like that in the movie, for sure there's be some.
[00:39:15] Speaker D: People being like, you can't watch this movie because of absolutely.
[00:39:18] Speaker C: The nudity of us being upset about.
[00:39:21] Speaker D: Yeah, it's really caring and kids taking care of your elders and blah, blah, blah.
[00:39:26] Speaker C: Yeah, there's nothing offensive about that.
[00:39:28] Speaker E: So nice ideologies around responsibility that our Western industrialized settler model doesn't observe. Yeah.
[00:39:36] Speaker C: I love that. You're totally in school right now, so.
[00:39:38] Speaker E: It might be a bit disruptive.
[00:39:41] Speaker D: Maybe that's why it was banned.
[00:39:43] Speaker E: Well, it makes me wonder.
[00:39:45] Speaker G: I forgot to do that.
[00:39:46] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Was it maybe it was banned for the bathing of the elderly?
[00:39:49] Speaker F: I looked it up because I was.
[00:39:51] Speaker G: Really curious for you why it was.
[00:39:52] Speaker F: Banned and where it was banned.
[00:39:54] Speaker G: Thank you, Virginia.
[00:39:56] Speaker E: Kim, don't look up the banned because it might give you enough no, that would be a no no.
[00:40:03] Speaker G: Virginia, tell us the ban.
[00:40:05] Speaker F: Yeah, so the ban is for infanticide.
[00:40:09] Speaker D: And releasing the babies.
[00:40:12] Speaker F: Yeah. Euthanasia and suicide.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: So that I haven't got to violence and sexual references.
[00:40:19] Speaker E: That was the other thing.
[00:40:21] Speaker F: Right. And so I looked up where it's also banned.
[00:40:23] Speaker G: Right.
[00:40:23] Speaker F: Because it would give you an idea of maybe which particular states bans it is. It's quite widely banned across the whole, you know, Texas, of course, but also, like, Missouri.
[00:40:36] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:40:36] Speaker F: There's lots of states that bans it. If I had to hypothesize why, I would think maybe it's just the age of the kids are reading it in school. So it said that it was not appropriate for kids under 15. I think that's a bit of a stretch because there's some interesting concepts, I think, in there for early teens about community and control and sameness. That would be an interesting conversation to have with kids for some critical thought. But that's why I was saying that it was banned is because the age of the kids that it was originally.
[00:41:09] Speaker E: Being given to, that makes a lot more sense.
[00:41:14] Speaker D: I'm reading it with my nine year old.
[00:41:16] Speaker E: I think it's important because he's going to be coming up on I also.
[00:41:20] Speaker D: Read Part Time Indian with my nine year old.
[00:41:23] Speaker G: Oh, I haven't read it yet.
[00:41:26] Speaker E: How was that?
[00:41:27] Speaker D: It was excellent. He loved it. He wanted to read it.
[00:41:31] Speaker F: Was it tough for the nine year old to understand concepts? And was it appropriate for I think it was good.
[00:41:38] Speaker D: The only thing that was awkward was the kid was very open about he's.
[00:41:42] Speaker G: Like, I masturbate all the time.
[00:41:44] Speaker D: I'm a masturbating maniac. I love it, or whatever. But he just had such a great sense of humor, too. That was one of the best ways, I think, to introduce any topics that he's not yet aware of that he'll soon be getting to.
[00:41:57] Speaker G: Did you welcome it as a springboard into that conversation?
[00:41:59] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. I don't have any issues with. I firmly believe that if we can set the stage now that nothing's off the table, we can talk about whatever is an investment, at least into. In the future when there's legit, real big problems, there will be a sense of safety that you can come and talk about it, because it's always been that way.
[00:42:20] Speaker F: So do you change your language based on the age then, or do you just non filter just out with all of it?
[00:42:28] Speaker D: Well, like the book, we didn't change the language in the book. They were reading it together. Also, there was swearing in the book. I speak in an age appropriate way. Like, I try to make it obviously something that Fred can know. I'm not getting into like a giant political debate or something. You know what I mean? To try to tell him something.
[00:42:48] Speaker E: But yeah, nice.
[00:42:49] Speaker F: Yeah. Kara, I wanted your opinion on no, no. So, you know what I thought was interesting, based on sort of your last comment too, you know how the families have a family discussion every evening and then in the morning they talk about their dreams. So from your perspective in the land of therapy, what do you think about that? I think that's a good way, not force conversation, but to really encourage kids and all family members to talk about their days, talk about their feelings. There was a whole lot about the book that obviously I didn't agree with 99.9% of it, but do you think that would be something that you would pull out to insert into today's?
[00:43:32] Speaker E: Oh, for sure. Family dynamic dreams are so rich. They have so much and there's no one right or wrong way to discuss, turn around, examine a dream. So I would probably say, in general, I've overemphasized discussions in the realm of when there's no one right or wrong answer because uncertainty is really challenging, even for adults. So I just see the more that we can encourage our children to enter into the unknown, which can be uncomfortable, and just get used to reflecting, building that muscle, thinking critically through things that are multidimensional, I believe will serve them well in life.
[00:44:23] Speaker F: And to identify their feelings, I imagine, as well, would be important.
[00:44:27] Speaker E: Right, for kids, absolutely. Well, everyone actually dreams especially. It's just such an awesome place to go to because you can get so many nuggets from your kids. You can start to hear what meaning are they starting to slap on to different things. And then that will give you an idea of the different storytelling that they're telling themselves. And also it's just a way to explore themes. But again, I think just like what Kim does, actually, what all of you women I have come to hear you do is just using a maturity level to the best of your ability that is matching where your kids are at and not going on. Just in and out. Right? I don't think anyone really wants to be forced to partake in a discussion that's ongoing, just even rewarding that the kids can name one thing we do this thing like the rose. What is your petal of the day and what is your thorn? Because honestly, kids will dump out 800% of complaints, especially to their mothers. And that's okay. Get it out of you. But could we also, just in our discussion, what was one thing that was a thorn and what's one thing that's a petal? And then you just move on, like.
[00:45:34] Speaker F: The way you frame that.
[00:45:35] Speaker C: We do a high low buffalo. Our friends introduced us to that.
[00:45:38] Speaker G: Oh, tell me, what was your high?
[00:45:40] Speaker C: What was your low? And the buffalo was just anything else. It could be good, could be bad, could be whatever. Just something else that happened.
[00:45:46] Speaker G: And then that way, everybody gets an.
[00:45:48] Speaker C: Opportunity to share their day at the table. It leads to other conversations.
[00:45:52] Speaker E: That's awesome. I'm going to steal that.
[00:45:55] Speaker F: I think masturbation could be high mo.
[00:45:57] Speaker G: Yeah.
The book slowly reveals itself. So in that moment, I was like, oh, that's kind of nice. The kids feel it's important for them to share with their parents because that's one of the rules. And I was like, oh, that's kind of nice. So first when I was reading, I'm like, oh, little bit utopia, right? Like, oh, well, it kind of is good. Kids are sharing their feelings, sharing their dreams. Their parents are also sharing. It's part of the rules. But then, as we all know, as the book progresses, you realize, oh, no, that's just trying to figure out if.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: There'S something wrong with you, right?
[00:46:31] Speaker G: I'm only halfway through, but I don't know if it gets really worse later on in the book or not. But I guess the point is, every place there's always good and bad. Nothing is like how we always talk. It's never only good and only bad. There's this middle ground. So maybe that is a great thing that they do, but how they enforce it and how they got to the kids feeling that they were obligated and had to probably wasn't right, because that's like the first couple of chapters, I was like, maybe this is an advanced society and they're riding bikes instead of taking cars. But then as you read on, you're like, oh, I'm getting that weird feeling.
[00:47:12] Speaker C: It'S someone's idea of utopia.
[00:47:15] Speaker E: And it'll be interesting to now read the book after seeing the movie because the director was able to do it in the movie as well. On the surface, this looks really great. These are really nice ideas, but there's something off that as a viewer, you're going, but I don't feel good about this situation.
And it's kind of a great story to examine intention versus impact, to look at how people can have the intentions, but look at the impact.
It's just interesting.
[00:47:49] Speaker F: The theory of it might be a good one on paper, but the actual execution in an actual community.
[00:47:58] Speaker C: Right?
[00:47:58] Speaker G: Like communism.
[00:48:00] Speaker F: Like communism, exactly.
[00:48:05] Speaker G: The author in the book said she was just writing another's children's book, right, in the Prelude.
[00:48:10] Speaker E: Right?
[00:48:11] Speaker G: Yeah. And she just was writing it just like her other ones and wasn't thinking much of it. And she said then when it went out, she all of a sudden started getting massive amounts of mail. She's like, I got fan mail before, but these are, like, people writing long letters about how this book made them feel. And then I started getting hate mail, being like, you're a horrible person. And I think she wrote something like.
[00:48:34] Speaker C: Jesus doesn't love you.
[00:48:36] Speaker F: Yeah, I'm just looking it up right now. I remember that.
[00:48:38] Speaker G: Yeah. A whole bunch of hate mail at the same time. And she's like, It's interesting being a writer. I was just writing another kid's novel, and I had no idea the impact it would have and how much it's banned. And she's like, I get these notices from my publisher being like, you're being banned in all these places. The FBI also contacted her and told her not to go to a whole state because her life is in danger. And she was like, okay.
[00:49:04] Speaker F: Yeah, I've got to hear Sarah.
[00:49:06] Speaker G: Okay. Yeah.
[00:49:07] Speaker F: So she was saying her sort of Prelude introduction, she's saying that the book is now, 20 years later, mail she would get was, this book has changed my life. Did Jesus would be ashamed of you? Too? I noted in here, which I think is actually the image that I snapped and sent to you, just seems that it comes from wherever the reader's at. Too right. Wherever they're in their lives reading this book, perhaps they take that more negative or positive experience from it. It's interesting the strong emotions that have.
[00:49:36] Speaker G: Come out of this from someone just exploring a topic. Yeah, I think it's interesting.
[00:49:41] Speaker F: Fiction.
[00:49:42] Speaker G: Yeah, it's fiction.
[00:49:43] Speaker E: Chill out.
[00:49:44] Speaker F: It's fiction.
[00:49:44] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:49:45] Speaker G: One thing we've noticed in this season, that a lot of banned books, they're banned because they're written for that age group that either children or young adult. And those are the ones that are banned the most, probably because schools are reading them and people don't want their kids reading whatever.
[00:50:01] Speaker E: Yeah, that would make sense. It'd be interesting to look at. Of all the banned books, is that generally why books become banned? I wonder if there are many just for adult books that make it on the banned list. Does the banning truly start to just really ramp up and come in because of the intended age of the readers?
[00:50:25] Speaker C: I think probably yes. But I also think it's a little bit ironic. Part of it is when your kids are young, you have a huge amount of control over what they read. Then as they get older and they go into school and the school starts deciding what they're going to read, the parents, they lose their control. Especially when books about control don't teach those kids to stand up against control.
[00:50:47] Speaker G: Right.
[00:50:48] Speaker F: Parents want to impart their own views onto their kids too.
[00:50:52] Speaker G: Right.
[00:50:52] Speaker F: And make sure that that stays there.
[00:50:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:55] Speaker D: I'd be interested to see how the period in time influences when or how or what books are banned.
[00:51:03] Speaker G: Right.
[00:51:03] Speaker D: Like, right now, it's a bunch of crazy fucking people in Florida who aren't even reading them. Never get them off the shelf. Let's ban everything. In the 20s, was their books banned? Or were people just like, what and when did it start? What was the first book that was banned? That would be interesting information, I think.
[00:51:20] Speaker F: Do any of these books get banned in Canada, too?
[00:51:23] Speaker G: Canada? It's very rare any books to be banned in Canada. I looked it up. It's very rare that we ban anything.
[00:51:29] Speaker D: Here because it's like, for me, what's the word I'm looking for? Like a novelty. Well, this book's banned, but here, I purchased it from the local store. Wasn't like I didn't have to get it from the black market or anything and read all of the banned books.
Are they even really banned? Banned from where?
[00:51:44] Speaker G: I was watching something on I think it was Facebook Watch or something. So it was just a clip. There was a man who came in front of a committee that was banning books in the US. And he was talking about his grandmother who had survived the Holocaust. And he said she just really wouldn't talk about the Holocaust at all. And both him and his sister decided to become teachers. And when they were going through their teachers college or whatever, then she eventually talked to them. And she said to them, first they came for the books, then they came for the teachers, then they came for the people. So be watchful. If they start coming from books, they're coming for you next.
[00:52:25] Speaker C: Be vigilant.
[00:52:27] Speaker G: Isn't that crazy?
Because how many bannings are happening right now in the US. But there's something I quoted from Jodie Picult because she's been banned a lot, her books. The quote was, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a parent deciding a certain book is not right for her child. There is a colossal problem with a parent deciding that therefore, no child should be allowed to read that book. Yeah, I like that. People can decide what they want their kids to read. I read on on the article, and her article was saying, what's happening is the Committee for banning only has a certain amount of time to review what's being banned. And people can ban the book without reading the book. Without reading the book. They can just make a list. Someone in I think it was Florida, but I don't want to say for certain because I read the article a long time ago.
[00:53:18] Speaker D: Everything is in Florida. Other places for sure. Florida.
[00:53:23] Speaker G: They just listed every book she ever written and then submitted it. One parent, and she's like, she definitely didn't read any of my books. And some of the things she quoted, why she was banning it, she's like, none of those things are in the books she's quoting. She clearly hasn't read my book. But now it's just being banned in Florida because they didn't have enough time to review all of the books she's ever written in two months to decide. So it was just easier for them to say, okay, it's banned.
[00:53:49] Speaker D: Why is there such a sense of urgency? Too right?
[00:53:52] Speaker G: Obviously, yeah.
[00:53:54] Speaker E: A human invented the time frame, right? It's like absolute time frame.
[00:54:01] Speaker C: That sounds like a lot of work. Let's just say ban them all.
[00:54:05] Speaker G: Yeah, I don't have time to read all of these, but I was done.
[00:54:08] Speaker C: With that when I finished high school. English I don't want to have to read all they've got 24 hours.
[00:54:13] Speaker G: What they mean?
[00:54:14] Speaker D: No one said anything about reading on this banning books committee.
[00:54:19] Speaker G: What they should do is the people presenting books to be banned, in this case a parent, they should have to quote where the problem is. On what page? If the parents were forced to read the books they want banned and quote the reasons they want them banned, there would be much less banned, because the parents now would have to spend the time reading all these books.
[00:54:40] Speaker C: But wouldn't it be interesting if something else happened where it's like you have to read the book before you can ban it? Authors try to make books that sounded like they should be banned, so all these parents buy the book, and then they sell more copies and they read.
[00:54:52] Speaker G: Them like, oh, it's their strategy, shocking.
[00:54:55] Speaker C: As the title or reviews.
[00:54:57] Speaker E: Yeah, okay.
[00:54:57] Speaker C: I guess it's fine. It's really just about yeah, I'd like.
[00:55:00] Speaker F: To know who's on that panel, too. So let's just say a parent comes in with a suggestion for a book to get banned. So who's on that panel? And what's the makeup of that panel that decides yay or nay if a book actually does get banned or not?
[00:55:14] Speaker G: I know that, at least from this article, librarians from the school board are on that panel, but in addition, also people from the school board. School board trustees? Is that what they're called? Something like that.
[00:55:29] Speaker F: Got you.
[00:55:30] Speaker G: I do know she said it used to be just librarians at the individual schools would decide if a parent was upset. They'd read the book and say, no, I've already read that book, but not anymore.
[00:55:41] Speaker E: Don't you find, though, especially in schools where there's a lot of politics, a lot of it is just about not wanting to cause a big upset?
Sometimes I just feel like maybe the banning of books is continuing on because it's easier not to be disrupting.
[00:56:00] Speaker G: No, that's exactly why it's happening.
[00:56:02] Speaker E: You just go, okay, yes, no problem. We will take it off the shelves. Just because you don't want the extra attention or headaches or what have you.
[00:56:12] Speaker G: The squeaky wheel.
[00:56:13] Speaker F: I feel like that happens here, too, in our school systems as well. There are some very strict rules at recess that make zero sense, but, you know, it's probably from one parent.
Something random happens and then they do a full on ban of whatever that activity.
[00:56:31] Speaker C: No more digging holes, no more splashing.
[00:56:33] Speaker G: On puddles or whatever.
[00:56:35] Speaker F: No more snow playing in snow. Right.
[00:56:38] Speaker E: That's kind of what the giver is about.
[00:56:41] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:56:41] Speaker E: Is that they just wanted to increase the likelihood of safety and protection for people.
[00:56:47] Speaker F: The elders come up with this way.
[00:56:50] Speaker E: Yeah. And sameness the sameness. How can we decrease the likelihood of having ripples or big waves in the water?
[00:56:58] Speaker F: Yeah, I feel like a lot gets thrown back to, oh, it's all about safety and protection. I feel like that's a bit of a cop out sometimes. It's really well, it's a bit of a CYA because I don't want to get sued or I don't know. But it's always for your protection. Okay.
[00:57:11] Speaker E: Well, so much of it is based on liability.
[00:57:15] Speaker G: It's for their protection. That's brilliant. That's exactly what it is. For their protection.
Yeah. Just even when I lived in China and when I've moved here, I realized how bubble wrapped we are in Canada. There's an example. When I was in China, I was cleaning our shower, the edges of the drain, I was trying to scrub it, and it cut my finger. And in my mind, I would never have thought that metal, clearly metal in the drain would be sharp because it would never be sharp in Canada, ever.
[00:57:51] Speaker E: No, I don't even know what you described.
[00:57:53] Speaker G: Right. But I was cleaning it and I cut myself because I was getting too close to inside the drain and inside drain. Why would they who'd you sue?
[00:58:01] Speaker F: Do you sue everyone over that?
[00:58:02] Speaker D: That's what they mean.
[00:58:02] Speaker G: I was oh, and next time I was just more know there's lots of rules in Canada that are not rules senegal either, or in China, and everyone is perfectly fine, but it's always about safety. But then you don't allow people to live, try things. Yeah, yeah. I'm more aware of taking care of myself and my own safety and testing things out than always assuming something out there is protecting me.
[00:58:32] Speaker D: How you raise children to be competent.
[00:58:35] Speaker G: Right.
[00:58:35] Speaker D: Like, if you protect them from everything, then when they get older, they don't feel like they can handle things on their own. They have to be able to get into problems and get out of problems in order to establish any form of self confidence in their ability to solve problems.
[00:58:51] Speaker C: I was having a discussion with a parent this past week, and I was saying something. About the first time I went on a bus without an adult. I think it was with you two, Kim and Sarah. And I was like, I was nine, because we moved to the new house when I was nine, and we were visiting Kim in our old neighborhood, and they were like, I don't know if my daughter could ride the bus by herself. I'm like, you know what? She probably could. I mean, a nine year old is a pretty kind of old kid that can do a lot of things. But even like a younger kid, you wouldn't send them just on their own, like, oh, good luck.
[00:59:22] Speaker G: You would teach them.
[00:59:23] Speaker C: But really, kids can do a lot. There's a certain feeling here being like, I don't know if my kid could do that. And the answer is, usually your kid probably could if you just kind of show them how to do lots of things. Kids can do lots of things.
[00:59:36] Speaker E: Absolutely.
[00:59:37] Speaker D: Our whole childhood was like, I would get up in the morning, put on my bathing suit in case I'd be lucky enough to bump into someone who had a pool that wanted to let me swim in it, or spring, then play outside the entire day. I don't recall lunches or anything like this. Ride my bike down to the creek, be at the bridge, whatever. Go through the complex behind the house, like whole neighborhood. Go over to that park and be over there. And no adults, no nothing.
[01:00:07] Speaker F: No cell phones.
[01:00:08] Speaker G: Right?
[01:00:08] Speaker F: Cell phones.
[01:00:09] Speaker D: It's just so different now. And also you hear about people calling whatever, authorities on people who do let their kids behave like that now. And I don't know if we're just this specific generation, the kids of the 80s or whatever, they were neglected. I don't know if we were neglected.
[01:00:27] Speaker E: Or if everybody's to be wild and free and figure things out and build mini kid communities.
Maybe a little bit of neglect, but also a healthy dose of just get out there.
[01:00:43] Speaker G: I was reading because Meredith suggested it. Hunt, gather, parent. And one of the things in it that I could relate to moving here from Canada is so in that book, they're saying how kids can be more independent. Especially you have a community, like neighbors and stuff. You can let them go out on their own because you're in a community and your neighbors are also watching out for your children. And she was giving people tips in America and Canada or Western societies on how they could help build this community to give their kids more independence. Because one of the things she learned from these different cultures, the kids are more independent. My son had come with us to building our house and he was with us, but he didn't bring his shoes and he wanted to go to the house we were renting to get his shoes because he wasn't allowed inside the house we were building with no shoes on. And his friend from across the street had come to play in the house. So he went walking to our house without informing anyone to get his shoes. And me, as a Canadian parent, freaked out. Like, I was walking back, I was searching for him, I was screaming his name, and one of the neighbors were like, yeah, there he's over there. I was like, oh, okay. And I walked, and I was screaming his name. And then another neighbor, as I kept on walking, they're like, yeah, he's over there. I was like, okay, great. As I went to the house calling his name, all these people were like, yeah, no, we got you. He's just there. He's fine. He came running out of our new house with his shoes. He's like, I didn't have my shoes, so I needed to get my shoes. So now I live in a community that helps make children more independent because everybody is watching out. So now my kids I could just get my kids to go to the store for me. I'll be like, here's some money. Can you pick up some onions or potatoes or whatever? And they go all on their own. But I would feel nervous when I lived in Toronto, ever sending my six year old out to go get something for me at the store, and maybe parents would call authorities somehow. I'm a bad parent because I sent my kid out to the store just down the street. Because it's all about we have to protect them, right?
[01:02:44] Speaker C: You want to be able to let your kids go to the neighborhood park, but is somebody going to call some authority on me? They're like, Why can't I just go?
[01:02:52] Speaker F: So do you think we're lacking that village here then, in Canada or Western society?
[01:02:58] Speaker G: I know.
[01:02:58] Speaker D: I was just thinking about our street, right? Like, from my house to the end of our street, we knew everyone who lived in every house and the other way towards the bridge and across the and like, we maybe didn't know everyone in the complex, but we knew enough people in our square block.
[01:03:15] Speaker C: I was comfortable enough to knock on their door and ask to use the.
[01:03:17] Speaker D: Bathroom or run away from them if they were trying to help you if you fell out of a tree.
[01:03:21] Speaker C: That's right.
[01:03:25] Speaker D: Because we knew who they were.
I know who you are.
[01:03:28] Speaker C: I'm scared of you. For no particular reason.
[01:03:32] Speaker D: I think about my street right now. There aren't even any kids on it. So even if Fred wanted to go out and call on someone, there's nobody.
[01:03:38] Speaker G: To call on, or they're all in the backyard.
[01:03:40] Speaker D: Citizens.
[01:03:41] Speaker G: There's, like, somewhere you don't even know.
[01:03:43] Speaker C: Does that house have kids or not? Looks like it might have kids. The kids don't necessarily play out front in some places. Some neighbors they do and some they don't. So I'm always like, let's bike around.
[01:03:52] Speaker G: And see who's in our try to find some kids.
[01:03:55] Speaker E: Check it out.
[01:03:56] Speaker F: I get strangely so excited when there's a knock at my door and it's one of my kids friends just actually like old school knocking on the door, just seeing if they can come out to play. I'm like, oh, yes, they can come play.
Oh, my god. Some like tiny sense of normalcy for a child's life.
[01:04:17] Speaker E: And it's just yeah, we had some neighborhood kids over yesterday. Yesterday was Alex's first communion and she hates it, right. Having to be dressed up and sociable. And so I'm like, don't worry. We're almost done. Let's go home. It'll be a nice quiet afternoon. No, it wasn't. All the kids in our neighborhood know that ours is the house with the pool and it's a sunny day. So they're all coming know to see if the kids can play. Really. They just want to check to see.
[01:04:49] Speaker D: If the pool is swimming.
[01:04:51] Speaker E: But it is.
[01:04:52] Speaker F: That would have been Kim at your house.
[01:04:54] Speaker G: I already have my suit on under her. I'm ready to go communion dress.
[01:04:59] Speaker E: But I will take it any day as much as it is mayhem and craziness. And you're like, wow, how about you eat all of my food, children?
I'll take it because it feels so normal and like the way things should be. You're just back door and front door unlocked and kids in the neighborhood know that you're a safe space to come and you just go and they go in and out in their backyard. Front yard down the street at the park.
Yeah, I love it.
[01:05:28] Speaker C: I guess I'm moving to your neighborhood.
[01:05:30] Speaker E: All right, let's do it.
[01:05:31] Speaker C: She's going to show up with her bathing suit on.
[01:05:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:05:37] Speaker C: Because that's thing kids can figure things out sometimes. They don't get a lot of credit.
[01:05:40] Speaker E: But they figured out that we're the.
[01:05:43] Speaker G: House with the pool and the snacks.
[01:05:50] Speaker C: I definitely did this as a kid more than once where I'd have a bathing suit on. I'd show up at a friend's house in the pool and be like, hi, how's it going? They're like, hi. I'm like, I have my bathing suit on.
[01:06:00] Speaker G: Not even subtle.
[01:06:01] Speaker C: No point being subtle if it's your friend be like, listen, guess what I'm wearing.
[01:06:05] Speaker D: Let's go.
[01:06:07] Speaker F: I'm jumping in.
[01:06:09] Speaker E: You can't as a kid. Don't you just want that swimming in the pool so badly?
[01:06:16] Speaker C: Totally.
[01:06:17] Speaker D: Especially in a summer in Ontario. Could it be any humidor? The kids on your street are like, I'm hot. I know where to go. I'm hungry. I know where to go.
[01:06:27] Speaker E: Also where to go.
[01:06:30] Speaker D: That's two problems they can solve like that.
[01:06:33] Speaker E: Done.
[01:06:35] Speaker F: I have a question too about the.
[01:06:39] Speaker D: Know she's been banned. They know she was going to say she's out.
[01:06:45] Speaker G: Stop talking about Virginia. Detectives, elders are listening.
[01:06:49] Speaker E: They're after her.
[01:06:50] Speaker D: Oh, my God.
[01:06:51] Speaker C: Well, hopefully Virginia comes back.
[01:06:53] Speaker D: She's been released.
[01:06:55] Speaker G: She's been released.
[01:06:56] Speaker C: She's been my goodness.
[01:07:01] Speaker G: Wait.
[01:07:01] Speaker D: Well, let's wait for the announcement. We don't ask questions between nine and twelve.
Needless to say, she's been released.
[01:07:10] Speaker E: Needless to say, language wasn't specific enough. Is that a detail in the book or is it just in the movie?
[01:07:18] Speaker D: What they said when the plane I.
[01:07:20] Speaker E: Was like, they've been released.
[01:07:22] Speaker D: Don't worry.
[01:07:22] Speaker C: Accuracy and language is valued in this society.
[01:07:26] Speaker G: Yeah. Remember because he finally found the word, which was apprehensive, because he was excited.
[01:07:31] Speaker C: But not didn't know what to expect.
[01:07:35] Speaker E: And was apprehensive acceptable in their world.
[01:07:39] Speaker G: Yes. His parents liked that he used that word.
[01:07:41] Speaker E: Okay.
[01:07:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:07:45] Speaker G: Virginia said that her laptop just turned off, but she'll come up.
[01:07:49] Speaker E: I am shocked and surprised.
[01:07:52] Speaker G: Hey, well, we've been hanging on the.
[01:07:53] Speaker D: Edge of our seat.
[01:07:55] Speaker C: I'm going to say something.
[01:07:56] Speaker G: And then you disappeared.
[01:07:59] Speaker F: I was telling Shane that, like I.
[01:08:01] Speaker C: Just said about the book cliffhanger.
[01:08:05] Speaker F: Sorry.
[01:08:06] Speaker G: So what were you saying? So there's no cliffhanger.
[01:08:09] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:08:09] Speaker F: So it was about the assignment, that ceremony at twelve, how they got the assignments. And they were talking about how leading up to the assignments, that there was observers observing their everyday life to see what a good job would be or good occupation would be for them. So I guess that was my question is what do you think about that strategy to help? Almost like a guidance counselor, right? To fit you where is best suited for your skill set. Although again, they have no choice but even just parts of that concept where you're being slotted into the best job that suits your natural abilities.
[01:08:43] Speaker E: I love the idea of it.
[01:08:45] Speaker C: It's interesting. If they nail it, your inner self might be different than your outward self. Although I think they try to control for that too, right? Where they're like, you have to talk about your dreams, you have to talk about your feelings, you have to do certain things. I guess they would see which volunteer things you would enjoy. Some people were probably very happy, but you think every once in a while somebody's not going to be. And also if you're twelve, you change a lot between twelve and 25. So what you're passionate about today might not be what you're super passionate about in ten years. Especially in today's world where people sometimes change their job several times or their career, like even area several times.
[01:09:23] Speaker E: They're even showing the latest research. When you look at western societies that the average adults, even up to the, I think it was the average age of 44 nowadays, are still fluctuating and weaving in and out of reexamining their vocations and how their skill set and personality lend themselves to be really strengthened by their vocational context or weakened by it. And I was like, yeah, that makes sense. I didn't figure this out when I was 1621, but maybe the observer would have.
[01:09:58] Speaker G: Maybe I changed my job so many times and when I was doing the thing I was doing. I was really happy until I wasn't. And then I moved on and I changed again. So I think that would be not a great solution for me.
[01:10:10] Speaker C: Because you would be released.
[01:10:12] Speaker G: I probably would be released, yeah.
[01:10:15] Speaker D: Also, what if you're passionate about say, painting or something? But that society doesn't even deem that a job. But you're also good at math, so now you're the accountant, you know what I mean? Yeah.
[01:10:28] Speaker C: That makes very beautiful spreadsheets.
[01:10:31] Speaker D: Right.
[01:10:32] Speaker G: And you have an appeal. You can do an appeal. It said they said people don't normally do it because it's so good, but.
[01:10:37] Speaker C: Because you get released, that's another thing.
[01:10:39] Speaker G: Another reason I would be released is because I sometimes use the wrong word for something that sounds similar. So you know what I'm talking about. But I'm not using the correct language. I do that a lot.
[01:10:53] Speaker F: Big no.
[01:10:53] Speaker G: And I would be released probably because.
[01:10:56] Speaker D: For sure, definitely I would never make.
[01:10:58] Speaker G: It to twelve or his friends.
[01:11:00] Speaker C: Like that, though. Always using the wrong word.
[01:11:02] Speaker D: Well, and his sister is also a little bit I see him being like annoyed at her because she's out of the lines, too.
[01:11:08] Speaker G: That's true. With her ribbons or something. Right.
[01:11:12] Speaker F: But they're disciplined, though. They get disciplined. Right. Like his one friend I forgot his friend's name.
[01:11:17] Speaker D: Asher.
[01:11:18] Speaker G: Yeah.
But I would want to change jobs. So if I made it to twelve and a job, I would be constantly appealing. And I'm sure they would just be like, let's just release her.
[01:11:30] Speaker E: It's just easier.
[01:11:33] Speaker D: They give you a job where you had to be silent.
[01:11:38] Speaker F: Bathing the old people.
[01:11:39] Speaker G: I would be bathing the old people.
[01:11:41] Speaker D: You'd be having the babies, not nurturing them.
[01:11:44] Speaker F: That's enough.
[01:11:46] Speaker E: Oh, I know. I haven't even processed that part of the detail.
[01:11:51] Speaker G: Yeah. That's a disgraceful job. And it's like well, I mean, the.
[01:11:56] Speaker C: Mom said that maybe because she doesn't see value in it because it's not her job.
[01:12:00] Speaker G: Yeah. Because she's injustice or she probably thinks.
[01:12:03] Speaker C: Hers is very valuable.
[01:12:04] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:12:05] Speaker F: I got the sense that that was the general consensus of the job as the I forget what the mother was, but that it wasn't highly valued.
[01:12:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:12:14] Speaker D: You do it for three years or three babies or whatever, and then you have to go be a hard laborer. That's not what you want, is it?
[01:12:21] Speaker G: That's totally what I'd end up doing.
[01:12:22] Speaker C: Probably some people like labor though, right?
[01:12:25] Speaker E: Oh yeah.
[01:12:25] Speaker C: Using their bodies like some people like doing some people.
[01:12:28] Speaker E: Like that's a real skill set. We wouldn't have our world if we.
[01:12:31] Speaker D: Didn'T have that mean that no man can do it then. Like is all the labor done by women?
[01:12:34] Speaker C: No, you can become a laborer, but just the men don't do the babies. I mean, it's not like all the people who are doing the labor used to be moms. It's just saying the ones that were.
[01:12:43] Speaker D: Moms that's where they're put out to.
[01:12:46] Speaker E: Pasture just two different forms of labor.
[01:12:49] Speaker C: Yeah, they're not going to go from, like, mom to nurturer or mom to lawyer.
[01:12:54] Speaker D: I mean, how ridiculous too, right?
[01:12:56] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[01:12:57] Speaker D: Mom to nurturer? No, absolutely not. That doesn't make any sense.
[01:13:00] Speaker G: That is danger.
[01:13:03] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us on this.
[01:13:04] Speaker G: Episode of Book Interrupted. If you'd like to see the video.
[01:13:07] Speaker B: Highlights from this episode, please go to our YouTube channel, Book Interrupted. You can also find our videos on www.bookinterrupted.com.
[01:13:18] Speaker C: Are you interested in joining the conversation and having your comment played on the podcast? Simply find a quiet place and record a voice memo. Then send it to
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[01:13:29] Speaker G: Or you could do it the old.
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[01:13:39] Speaker G: Book Interrupted.
[01:13:41] Speaker A: Never forget every child matters.
